<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1476</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	12/10/99 2:34:51 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, December 10 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1476<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Salvage One (Was Re: )<BR>
Re: <BR>
Re the Gaming Industry<BR>
Re: Thanks<BR>
Re Wager<BR>
Munchkins<BR>
Re: Length of Jumps<BR>
Re: Paintball is not a real gun, much less a light crew served weapon<BR>
Re Nobility<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re: Captain with the away team<BR>
Moer advice please....<BR>
Re: Starfleet = Coast Guard<BR>
RE: The will to kill<BR>
Re: <BR>
re:Apple II disks to Mac was Re: Starfleet = Coast Guard<BR>
Wrestling<BR>
Re: One day, one day<BR>
Salvage 1<BR>
Re: There goes our salvage... and car!<BR>
Re: Wager<BR>
Re: Mr. Zeigler's first SJG book?<BR>
Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:08:33 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
At 09:27 PM 12/5/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: Bruce Macintosh <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
>> >Yes, I know page 48 says K'Kree scientists were<BR>
>> >miraculously able to advance 2 tech levels in a mere 25 years<BR>
>> Humans went from TL6 (1950s) to TL8 (1990s) in 40 years, so it<BR>
>> isn't completely implausible (although a little brisk, I admit.)<BR>
><BR>
>Perhaps K'Kree science was ahead of their culture.  Many societies have<BR>
>trouble embracing advances in technology.  If new breakthroughs were sitting<BR>
>on a shelf or restricted to lab testing because their populace was resistant<BR>
>to change then a sudden, necessary change in attitude brought about by<BR>
>Contact would suddenly change the paradigm.  Experimental technology could<BR>
>be quickly implemented and a new focus on the subject could concentrate<BR>
>efforts to make the next breakthrough.  Sounds like a one-time thing, not<BR>
>sustainable by any stretch.<BR>
><BR>
>Colin Michael, WebDev<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Keep in mind that racial survival is a powerful motivator.  We<BR>
figured out how to escape our own atmosphere in the name of national<BR>
survival....<BR>
<BR>
        -Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:40:28 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Salvage One (Was Re: )<BR>
<BR>
<iSteve@outhere.f9.co.uk> wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
> I seem to remember a 70\'s TV show called \"Salvage One\"<BR>
> where a junkyard owner and his improbably handsome sons<BR>
> built a multi-use rocket IN THEIR BACK YARD which they<BR>
> used to recover \"junk\" from the moon, and then to get into<BR>
> all kinds of scrapes and adventures....<BR>
><BR>
> Very realistic it was too.<BR>
><BR>
> Anyone else remember this, or was it just an awful dream?<BR>
<BR>
I remember that show.  I loved it because it was a good<BR>
blend of Old School SF (he built the Salvage One from<BR>
junk in his back yard) and New School SF (about people,<BR>
not technology).  IIRC, the engine that powered Salvage<BR>
One ran on handwavium and the father was played by<BR>
Andy Griffith (the same guy who played Sherrif Taylor on<BR>
_Mayberry RFD_ and the title role in _Ben Matlock_).<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:45:16 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
> > From: <iSteve@outhere.f9.co.uk><BR>
> > > Anyone else remember this, or was it just an awful dream?<BR>
> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Jory Earl wrote:<BR>
> > Andy Griffith played the inventor.  No, it wasn't a dream..:)<BR>
Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:<BR>
> Not Andy Griffith, Lloyd Bridges.<BR>
<BR>
No, I'm pretty sure it was Andy Griffith.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:45:31 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re the Gaming Industry<BR>
<BR>
> Odds are their local game store doesn't have racks of DP9 books, and<BR>
>if they do, I bet they don't have racks of Fading Suns, or Star Trek, or<BR>
>...<BR>
Mine does... all of the above, including separate sections for Tribe 8,<BR>
Jovian Chronicles, and Heavy Gear. All the ST stuff is in one location.<BR>
Fading Suns is also there.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>There has been a decline, I agree, but not _that_ much.<BR>
><BR>
>While I agree that 1/20th sounds pretty crazy, the people quoting it are<BR>
>the ones with their fingers on the pulse of the industry.  Now, since the<BR>
>sampling of how well games sell is not even remotely exact, I have no doubt<BR>
>that that figure is off a bit.  Game companies and distributors don't<BR>
>exactly share their financial data, and any sampling will be bound to be<BR>
>inaccurate.  How much, and in what direction, I have no clue.<BR>
<BR>
From my view-point, as a player/GM/collector in one of the strong bastions<BR>
of "Roleplaying Is Life" cities (Anchorage AK tends to NEED such<BR>
diversions).... About 1/3rd of the players have been LOST to CCG's. ABout<BR>
1/6 have been lost to Computer Games... (I just can't bring myself to call<BR>
it Roleplaying). The average age of people doing roleplaying is climbing<BR>
here. When I was a kid, the average was about 18; now the average age is<BR>
about 25,with more andd more over 40's, and somewhat fewer under 20's...<BR>
This is purely guestimation based upon local conventions, tournaments, etc.<BR>
<BR>
I do know that many of the wargame companies that had one or two<BR>
"roleplaying products" (TFG, as case in point, AH for another) have dropped<BR>
off the face of the planet, at least as far as name recognition goes. AH<BR>
had RuneQuest 3rd, and TFtFV; TFG had Prime Directive, Crime Fighter, and<BR>
Delta Force RPGs. AH, as we all know, was bought by hasbro. TFG lost their<BR>
cash cow, ADB's Star Fleet Battles, and along with it went PD.<BR>
<BR>
WOTC spent a lot of money consolidating the market. They found good ideas,<BR>
bought them. Ars Magica. Talislanta. TSR.<BR>
<BR>
Almost everybody now plays one of the following, at least part time: D&D,<BR>
Palladium Games, GURPS, Hero, WW-Storyteller. Idicators of a market<BR>
correction. The market was getting too broad, and the die-off is a sign<BR>
that the industry is HEALTHY, since the companies that  died made room for<BR>
better ones, like DP9.<BR>
<BR>
 Linking Trav to one of the Survivors of the industry die-off insures it<BR>
will survive. Much as *I* may think GURPS mechanics are Dated, annoying,<BR>
and counter intuitive, it has the 3rd largest representation in stores of<BR>
any line of RPG materials I've seen; GT therefore is a guarantee of<BR>
Traveller surviving in some form for a long while.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:20:14 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Thanks<BR>
<BR>
thanks to Timothy Collinson and Keith johnson for prompt response to my<BR>
request for the back digests.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 09:52:45 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Wager<BR>
<BR>
>On 8 Dec 99, at 23:30, Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> I'd wager money that most of the people on this list, even though they<BR>
>> consider themselves roleplayers, aren't currently involved in a campaign.<BR>
>> That's not an attack on anybody, that's merely the reality of the<BR>
>> situation.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm. Last friday, I wrapped a 6 month campaign, with weekly sessions of ~5<BR>
hours. The group (with only minor changes) had been running without more<BR>
than two weeks off at a shot, since about August 96, although we've<BR>
switched systems every 3-6mo. I'll start up a new group around 2nd week of<BR>
January.<BR>
<BR>
I'd be willing to lay odds that the simple majority of the people on the<BR>
list haven't been involved with playing TRAVELLER in the past 6 months.<BR>
Then again, neither have I.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:51:42 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: Munchkins<BR>
<BR>
>What is a munchkin?<BR>
<BR>
obtrav:  A munchkin is a gamer who spends large amounts of time and<BR>
paper to construct the ultimate 400ton cruiser using CT bk2 and Mayday.<BR>
It is loaded with beamlasers, has the biggest computer, powerplant<BR>
either<BR>
at a 6rating with a 6g mdrive or a 5gmdrive (to allow for double fire,<BR>
of<BR>
course). "This [battlecruiser] is the ultimate power in the galaxy."<BR>
<BR>
How to solve Munchkinism?<BR>
A gaming table at a scifi convention long ago.......<BR>
Munchkin PC (MPC):  I have the ultimate battlecruiser. Nothing can<BR>
stop me! Order the emperor to surrender immediately!<BR>
Referee: Are you sure? (glancing down at his notes)<BR>
MPC: Yes! Broadcast the surrender message immediatly!<BR>
Referee: Admiral Howe of the Imperial Navy has recieved your message.<BR>
The 75kton strike cruiser "Free Enterprise" is altering course, and will<BR>
intercept<BR>
you in a half hour.<BR>
MPC:  WHHHAAAAAAATTTTT?!?!?!?<BR>
<BR>
The ultimate battlecruiser was chucked in the trash that day. As for the<BR>
MPC<BR>
responsible, I will neither confirm nor deny that persons identity. :-|<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry (plop101)  "So, uh, sir, what exactly is a meson gun?"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:52:48 -0800<BR>
From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Length of Jumps<BR>
<BR>
Jonathan Lupton <jonathanlupton@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Does this mean we should be measuring exact distances on our already<BR>
> inaccurate sector maps? Or should I just drink more/less Guinness, get<BR>
some<BR>
> more sleep and forget about it?<BR>
<BR>
I would opt for the latter or go to a more realistic model.<BR>
- --<BR>
Jason<BR>
___________________________________________<BR>
    The rules have changed...  Get paid to surf the web.<BR>
http://www.alladvantage.com/home.asp?refid=BMM-972<BR>
Please tell them BMM-972 if they ask who recruited you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________<BR>
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World<BR>
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at<BR>
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:56:57 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Paintball is not a real gun, much less a light crew served weapon<BR>
<BR>
At 03:43 PM 12/8/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>At 03:32 PM 12/8/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>  Paintball guns are not real, and they should be training for real, and for<BR>
>>crew-served weapons, even if they are going into supply or admin...<BR>
><BR>
>This is certainly true, but still, you'd think they'd be better at <BR>
>it...  Hmmm... Crew serviced paintball guns....<BR>
><BR>
>           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
><BR>
        We built a "mortar" using compressed air as propellant and a foam<BR>
cup as the submunitions carrier....  you could get a hell of a lot of paint<BR>
down on anybody dumb enough to try and defend the "castle" that was at the<BR>
spot we played....<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:03:44 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Nobility<BR>
<BR>
Boris writes<BR>
<BR>
>Loren,<BR>
>   There is an interesting article in one of the Traveller Chronicle <10 by<BR>
>Andy Slack(?)  dealing with the extension of social standing from A-Z that<BR>
>way filling plenty of room for lots of noble ranks.  It is really a first<BR>
>class piece of writing.<BR>
<BR>
It also totally changes the feel of the setting (I've tried it). I'd<BR>
suggest avoiding it... but it is wonderfully written. It also is not<BR>
supportive of existing canon. Great for Heresy, though.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:22:59 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
>> Here's something posted by Bruce from over two years ago:<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>Damn, so _this_ is what it feels like to blow an aging roll...I don't<BR>
>remember that at all!<BR>
><BR>
>Bruce Johnson<BR>
<BR>
Welcome to the world of Institutional Memory. The IM of the TML seems<BR>
fairly long... And, BTW, I remember that post from it's original posting to<BR>
the TML...<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:41:22 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Captain with the away team<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>What about PC's on an IISS mission to "Explore this system, lads."  Does the<BR>
>PC in charge of the mission remain on board while the others go down and<BR>
>deal with all the dangerous encounters?  Doesn't make for an exciting night<BR>
>for the leader's player I'd think if the session went for several hours and<BR>
>the leader just sat there reading a Dragon mag or a comic?  For the same<BR>
>reason, I think the away team in the ST universe contains senior officers,<BR>
>similar rules?  But that's just me, it's not for realism as much as "fun?"<BR>
><BR>
>-- The Roc<BR>
><BR>
        Well, since I am playing a Captain in Derek Stanley's PBIRC TNE<BR>
_Nightrim_ game, I can comment.  I started out at the beginning of our<BR>
"Ghost Ship" adventure *trying* to be the "Captain Responsible" and sending<BR>
paw-picked Away Teams to investigate.  However, as both a player and<BR>
Vargr-character, this *sucked*.  So, after everyone else got a crack at<BR>
being hero, I insisted on going for a look-see myself....  <BR>
        The first Away Team was entirely based on who I could afford to<BR>
loose, and each subsequent mission to the derilict was composed of more<BR>
"important" people.  Its a good balance, particularly given the Vargr<BR>
penchant for leading one's pack from the spearhead.<BR>
<BR>
        Just my Cr0.02.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri,December 10 1999 : 18 15 21<BR>
From: iSteve@outhere.f9.co.uk<BR>
Subject: Moer advice please....<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
Thanks for the stuff on salvage - as it turned out most of the PCs died, the rest blew the drive on the ship concerned and ran away....funny how these things turn out, eh?<BR>
<BR>
..and so I want to pick your brains again - the great thing about this mailing list is that people seem to base their comments on experience (probably because posters who talk garbage will have the fact pointed out to them in excruciating detail.  With footnotes.  And possibly diagrams).  There also seem to be quite a few military or ex-military types, so you guys are the chaps I\'m after here.<BR>
<BR>
I\'m kicking off a new campaign for a bunch of experienced gamers, but utter Traveller virgins (I\'m just lucky I guess...) and given the choice they decided to go for a military campaign so I\'m going to put them in an Imperial Marine squad during 5FW. <BR>
<BR>
SO on to my question....how much autonomy would an individual squad have?  Would a briefing go, \"here\'s your objective, here\'s what we know<BR>
about it, go do it....) or would it be \"on arrival here, split into 2 squads and.....?\"   Would the NCO have plenty of leeway in tactical decisions, or would orders be very specific?<BR>
<BR>
How did it work in the units you guys are/were in?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance,<BR>
<BR>
iSteve.<BR>
		<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 18:01:40 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starfleet = Coast Guard<BR>
<BR>
At 22:52 -0500 9/12/99, "Gary Miles" <garyglennmiles@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
>By the way, do any of you Macheads on the list (Rob? Don?) know of a way to<BR>
>hook up my old IIe 5.25" floppy drives to my Mac Performa 630 to be able to<BR>
>transfer text files? Email me off list if you do (or on list if anyone else<BR>
>is interested.<BR>
<BR>
Apologies but no... I do know that the Mac OS>7.5 will read PRODOS <BR>
disks, if they're 3.5 inch (or at least it will format them).<BR>
<BR>
Ask Leonard, he's your last, best hope...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:00:21 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: The will to kill<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson writes:<BR>
>>>I can't think of any higher life form which fights purely on<BR>
>>>instinct.<BR>
>>      I agree, sophoncy might even be defined in terms of<BR>
>>      the replacement of instinct with thought.<BR>
>By 'higher' I mean 'vertebrate'.  Animals _do_ have to learn.<BR>
<BR>
	It's all relative.  Most vertebrates do learn at least<BR>
	some behaviours, but all vertebrates have at least some<BR>
	instinctive behaviours.<BR>
<BR>
>>>In any case, the problem is that a race which has a tendency<BR>
>>>to kill its own kind will probably wipe itself out, intelligent<BR>
>>>or not.<BR>
>>      This would depend on population density, social structure,<BR>
>>      and under what circumstances killing is triggered.<BR>
>If killing is only 'triggered' than the race clearly _does_ have an<BR>
>anti-killing instinct.<BR>
<BR>
	I suppose that, in that sense, all organisms have an 'anti-<BR>
	killing instinct.'  That is just another way of saying that<BR>
	organisms do not typically attack everything in their<BR>
	environment (cats, trees, rocks, the air, the sun, etc.).<BR>
	Even the most ferocious critters (with, perhaps, the<BR>
	exception of rabid animals) restrain themselves unless they<BR>
	sense a prey/food/competitor/predator (ie. a 'trigger').<BR>
<BR>
>>	If you produce a bunch of clones that<BR>
>>      have absolutely no hesitation to kill, will they kill each<BR>
>>      other at the drop of a hat?<BR>
>Maybe.  They'd be sociopaths.  Quite possibly well-disciplined<BR>
>sociopaths, but sociopaths.<BR>
<BR>
	One might have to keep such troops in low berths until<BR>
	needed.  They might then have to be used like biological<BR>
	weapons: send them in, wait, then kill them all before<BR>
	heading in yourself.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:21:19 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> Welcome to the world of Institutional Memory. The IM of the TML seems<BR>
> fairly long... And, BTW, I remember that post from it's original posting to<BR>
> the TML...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Ahhh, shaddup, you, you...<BR>
<BR>
Uhhhh, who are you again? ;-P<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 19:55:59 +0000<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re:Apple II disks to Mac was Re: Starfleet = Coast Guard<BR>
<BR>
At 13:08 -0500 10/12/99, Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU> wrote:<BR>
>ONce upon a long time ago, Apple made a Apple II disk adapter for the LC<BR>
>series (dunno if yours is one of the 6,439 different Performa models that<BR>
>was a relabelled LCI/II/III, though I thought those wer all 4xx designated<BR>
>models) These adapters occasionally pop up.<BR>
<BR>
The Performa 630 is taken from the Quadra 630<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
                        MiB - Marines in Battledress<BR>
    "Protecting the Imperium from the Scum of the Galaxy"<BR>
Rob Prior's Mac software @ http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:23:00 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Wrestling<BR>
<BR>
Have any of you CT types worked out any rules for wrestling?  I have my own<BR>
pet system, based on adding 1D to Str plus a couple of DMs (such as<BR>
Brawling skill) for each combatant and comparing totals.  Does this come up<BR>
for anyone else?  I have had a couple of situations where PCs attempted to<BR>
tackle, restrain, or disarm an opponent.  It would be interesting to see<BR>
how others have handled it.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:47:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: One day, one day<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
<BR>
>Reminds me of a quote that came out of WWII (IIRC),<BR>
>"The united States, Canada, England and Australia are<BR>
>four countries devided by a common language."<BR>
<BR>
I think it's Winston Churchill, to the effect of "the<BR>
English and Americans are one people divided by a<BR>
common language."  <BR>
<BR>
Bob Hope, doing a gig on Diego Garcia in the 1960s,<BR>
commented that the British and American forces seemed<BR>
to get along very well despite the language barrier.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:37:23 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Salvage 1<BR>
<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, December 10, 1999 12:27 PM<BR>
Subject: Re:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> It was Andy Griffith, I remember him clearly in the pilot episode.<BR>
<BR>
It would appear that the IMDB agrees with you. Salvage was a TV movie which<BR>
was a pilot for a show called Salvage 1. The internet movie database says<BR>
that there were 20 episodes.<BR>
<BR>
In addition, there is a fan site at:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/9782/salvage1.html<BR>
<BR>
There is information there on the Salvage 1 mailing list, a rendered<BR>
Vulture, sound clips, pictures, an episode guide, and all the things that<BR>
one would expect from a fan site. It would seem that most of the series was<BR>
set on earth, and the capsule descriptions from the episode guide are<BR>
bizarre. I liked the following best:<BR>
<BR>
"On their first authorized salvage job - an aerial survey of Antarctic<BR>
icebergs - Harry, Melanie and Skip make an unauthorized stop on a supposedly<BR>
uninhabited island to pick up valuable spider monkeys for a zoo. What they<BR>
find instead is a lone scientist and a giant man-ape."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 13:04:13 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: There goes our salvage... and car!<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Jason T. Barnabas" <cybernaut@netzero.net><BR>
<BR>
>Can Walt recover his money from the dealer who <BR>
>didn't do his homework?<BR>
<BR>
Sure, at least if the deal took place in the United<BR>
States.  Here, under the Uniform Commercial Code, the<BR>
seller of goods gives an implied warranty of title. <BR>
That is, unless seller specifically discloses that<BR>
seller does not have or does not know if he has title<BR>
to the item, he is deemed to be promising that he does<BR>
have title. <BR>
<BR>
When it turns out that the car was stolen from some<BR>
third party, it becomes clear that the seller never<BR>
acquired title, so could never pass title to Walt.  So<BR>
the true owner gets his car back from Walt.  <BR>
<BR>
Walt now has remedies against the seller.  He can sue<BR>
for damages for breach of contract, arguing that the<BR>
seller failed to perform on his promise to deliver<BR>
ownership as well as mere possession of the car.  In<BR>
the alternative, he can sue for rescission, an<BR>
equitable remedy that puts the parties back where they<BR>
were as if the contract had never been made; the<BR>
argument there is that the consideration for the<BR>
contract -- ownership of the car -- failed.  <BR>
<BR>
In this case, there is no practical difference between<BR>
the two remedies.  Walt's damages for breach are the<BR>
purchase price.  Walt's remedy in rescission is to get<BR>
restitution of the purchase price.  <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:48:07 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Wager<BR>
<BR>
From: <iSteve@outhere.f9.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Exactly how much money are we talking?   *grin*<BR>
<BR>
I've already had to pay out a dollar on a bet today. That's enough for me<BR>
for this week. Try me again next week! ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 16:50:52 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Mr. Zeigler's first SJG book?<BR>
<BR>
From: <JFZeigler@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
> That fits my experience too.  The first book I did for SJG (non-<BR>
> Traveller) is still selling, but slowly.  _First In_ is zipping along in <BR>
> comparison.  The biggest problem with the GURPS approach is <BR>
>that any one worldbook probably has only a limited market.  Traveller <BR>
>already has a big fan base, though.<BR>
<BR>
What was your first SJG book?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:30:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Glenn Goffin <gmgoffin@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT/Flamebait: Starship Troopers revisited<BR>
<BR>
>From: Michel Vaillancourt<BR>
<misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
<BR>
>You're 100% right, and the distinction is *lost* on <BR>
>civvies sometimes...  I used to paint-ball with a few<BR>
<BR>
>lads in the Canadian Militia...  all us Forces types <BR>
>would get creamed when up against a pure civvies <BR>
>team...  why?  We'd try not to take casualties;  we <BR>
>had a healthy disinterest in getting "killed".  <BR>
<BR>
That's game-playing versus simulation.  The military<BR>
people are simulating a battle, and the civilians are<BR>
playing a game.  Winning a battle is very different<BR>
than winning a game; you can say that they have<BR>
different victory conditions.  <BR>
<BR>
For example, you win the game by getting possession of<BR>
the other side's flag more often than the other side<BR>
gets possession of yours.  You win a battle by (1)<BR>
achieving your tactical objective of getting<BR>
possession of the other side's flag, and (2) taking<BR>
few enough casualties that your side didn't break and<BR>
run and is not tactically compromised by lack of<BR>
manpower, and (3) not having so many of your side run<BR>
away that you're not tactically compromised.   <BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1476<BR>
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